Suggestions?
Any suggestions? Something you want us to talk about? Design ideas? Leave a commit here.
Comments
Comment from Jayne
Time: February 26, 2007, 5:41 am
sorry – just had to push this button to see what happened 
Still think you should change the banner though!
Comment from Jayne
Time: February 26, 2007, 5:47 am
P.S. Like your chat forums – how do I log in? Feel that I am more than just a guest?
and would love to leave a ‘commit’ (comet?) but can’t catch one – have tried!
Comment from the Grit
Time: February 26, 2007, 11:57 am
Hi Jayne,
The banner is up to the Brit. I’ll check on logging in to the forums. I’m also looking at how to get the avatar pictures back.
the Grit
Comment from the Grit
Time: February 26, 2007, 12:30 pm
Hi Jayne,
After much intense mental effort, I managed to click on the appropriate box. There should be a “register” feature at the top left, under “Meta.” Next time I will wait for the second cup of coffee to kick in before undertaking a technical challenge.
the Grit
Comment from the Brit
Time: February 26, 2007, 1:47 pm
Hi Jayne
What is it about the banner that you dont like?
the Brit
Comment from Jayne
Time: February 27, 2007, 8:58 pm
Hi Brit
I just feel that it looks uncomfortable and, well, brown! It doesn’t reflect your personalties as portrayed in your commentaries. You need a more personal touch than an empty looking English Club ‘members’ room?
Otherwise I like the new layout.
Comment from the Brit
Time: February 27, 2007, 11:04 pm
Hi Jayne
What type of banner would you suggest then? All thoughts gratefully received.
the Brit
Comment from the Grit
Time: February 27, 2007, 11:13 pm
Hi Jayne,
Considering that I may well have multiple-personality disorder, on top of the other disorder I have accumulate over the years, finding a banner that celebrates my politically correct traits may be difficult 
Did you notice the register function? I did that just for you.
the Grit
Comment from Jayne
Time: February 28, 2007, 6:02 am
Thank you Grit – my next stop is the Register!
Well, I thought a more cosy scene of you two sitting in comfy chairs, in front of a log fire, pipes (or cigars!) and glasses in hand would portray the idea of discussing the world’s ills more nearly? (or something along those lines)
At the moment it all looks a bit bleak – I see you both as ‘larger than life’ personalities and your banner doesn’t reflect that?
Not trying to be picky here – I really do love what you’ve done with the place. How do I get those dinky little emoticons on my blog?
Comment from the Grit
Time: February 28, 2007, 1:09 pm
Hi Jayne,
The little yellow people come as part of WordPress. As I recall, you’re using blogger, so if I see some way for you to add them, I’ll be sure to let you know.
the Grit
Comment from surfsander
Time: March 28, 2007, 11:45 pm
Hi guys, sorry I haven’t been posting much lately but as I said, my vacation is over and work occupies more of my time than I would like it to. i have been checking in pretyy regularly just to see what has been going on. I found a topic that you guys might want to blog about, it is the reaction of Iran over the movie 300. The only thing that I can say in their defense is that they truly can’t conceptualize the fact that the government doesn’t put out these movies, other than that, I think it is simply trying to divert attention from everything going on right now by pointing fingers and saying “Look how they portray us!” Meanwhile, totallydisregarding the fact that after their prayers every week, they chant “Death to America for about half of an hour. But, I guess hypocracy is pretty much just par for the course when dealing with these muslim states in the world of today. Anyway, I just thought I would give you this tasty little tid-bit. Take care guys.
S.
Comment from the Brit
Time: March 29, 2007, 7:17 am
Hi surf
Thanks for the info. We will have a look at that.
Don’t work too hard friend
the Brit
Comment from walter gremillion
Time: March 30, 2007, 4:09 pm
You’ve got to get those people out of there. moslems are nasty people. there’s no telling what they’ll do. you can’t anthropomorphize them. … walt
how does one sign on?
Comment from the Grit
Time: March 30, 2007, 4:58 pm
Hi walter,
If you mean register, that function should be in the meta box.
the Grit
Comment from David
Time: April 23, 2007, 2:16 pm
I learned about your blog. You may be interested in the Alternative Channel Citizen Journalist Contest.
http://www.alternativechannel.tv – an independent television-over-internet news channel – launches the 2007 International Citizen Journalist Contest.
This contest is open to everyone who feels they have something worth saying using video & producing a 1m30s to 3 minute video (report or testimonial).
Please pass this information on to everyone who is likely to be interested!
$100,000 in prizes. 5 categories.
The Alternative Channel audience will nominate their top 30 favorites in each category.
The final will take place from September 15th to November 15th, 2007.
A jury made up of professional journalists will choose the 3 winners in each category, and prizes will be awarded on the 1st of December 2007 during the first International “Citizen Journalism Summitâ€
The five award categories:
1. Best subject “English languageâ€
2. Best subject “French languageâ€
3. Best subject “Spanish languageâ€
4. Best Alternative Channel “International news subjectâ€
5. The “Audience Choice†Award
The prizes are the following
1st Prize of each category: 10 000 €
2nd Prize of each category: 3 000 €
3rd Prize of each category: 2 000 €
Comment from the Grit
Time: April 23, 2007, 2:28 pm
Hi David,
Thanks for the heads up.
the Grit
Comment from mommy zabs
Time: April 23, 2007, 4:23 pm
i just read this string. if you WOULD want a new banner i would be more than happy to work on one for you. you would just have to tell me what you want, what kind of fonts you like and so on… although brit, you may know how to do this stuff. Just an offer if you want to take m up on it.
Comment from the Grit
Time: April 23, 2007, 4:52 pm
Hi mz,
Thanks for the offer. While I am impressed with your work, the banner is up to the Brit, so we’ll have to wait for his input.
the Grit
Comment from mommy zabs
Time: April 23, 2007, 6:39 pm
cool, please note there is no offense if you don’t want my help.
another thing i just thought of… and i’m starting to experiment with.
only i’m doing it for mommybloging.
you may have already done it?
but you should register a britandgrit on myspace.
then start searching for “friends” with similiar political interests and add them as friends.
have all your things on myspace point to your blog.
i just started on mine but to see what I mean go here.
http://www.myspace.com/mommyzabsblog
Comment from the Grit
Time: April 23, 2007, 7:14 pm
Hi mz,
Great idea! I’ve been meaning to look at a lot of the social networking sites, but just haven’t gotten around to it. myspace does seem to be the leader though. Your energy level never ceases to amaze me.
the Grit
Comment from the Brit
Time: April 23, 2007, 10:12 pm
Hi Mz and Grit
Unfortunately over the months I have not had as much time as I would have liked to look at the Banner and, to be honest I do not suggest that I am an artist by any stretch of the imagination.
The original thought I had, though could not make it work, was for two guys of mature years sitting in armchairs in an english/US pub, with their respective flags incorporated somehow, but I wanted it to be based on a real photo.
Any help would be most gratefully received mommy.
kind regards
The Brit
Comment from mommy zabs
Time: April 23, 2007, 10:21 pm
the real photo part may be a challange without getting a photoshoot I will think on it.
Comment from Anders
Time: May 23, 2007, 10:02 pm
Hey Brit & Grit,
Have you seen you can get rss feeds from Helium now?
Anders, Helium
Comment from the Grit
Time: May 23, 2007, 10:09 pm
Hi Anders,
No, but I will certainly check it out. How are you doing!
the Grit
Comment from Anders
Time: May 24, 2007, 3:01 pm
Doing great here. Hope the same goes for you.
When you come by Helium to check out the rss feeds, you should also take a look at the Election 2008 page. I’m sure you’ll be tempted…
Anders
Comment from the Grit
Time: May 24, 2007, 4:48 pm
Hi Anders,
Glad to here it. Things are fine here. I’ll certainly check out the election page.
the Grit
Comment from Rebel
Time: June 16, 2007, 10:03 pm
At least it let’s us know the gov’t is once again medeling with Iran and trying to make something up to spill over into Iran for yet another war. The CIA already did it back in the 50’s. Why are we defending the war profiters when they’re caught faking something again?
And to the people who get mad when they leak stuff, it’s all on purpose. The US gov’t want to make the media look like it’s not on their side, like the gov’t s hands aren’t in their pockets. It’s sad to see them fooling the public. I’m not fooled. But evidently you all are, and ready to fight alongside the ones shreading the constitution, insteading of fighting against them.
Barak and Hillary probably deserve the antichrist points, but Bush, Cheney & Rove should be leading the pack. He won’t be leaving office in ‘09, he’s already planned it, even before he signed that bill that gives him right to order Martial Law (w/ the senate and congress out of gov’t say so).
Comment from sparklejensen
Time: July 2, 2007, 5:36 pm
i really like the idea behing your site. i look forward to the continuing conversation.
Comment from the Grit
Time: July 2, 2007, 5:52 pm
Hi s,
I’m glad you like it. Fortunately, we both have lots to say
I just checked out you site, which is lovely. May I just say that any blog which mentions sniper rifles has my approval, and, with few exceptions, a place on our blogroll. By the way, your banner isn’t showing for me.
the Grit
Comment from Alasdair
Time: July 19, 2007, 7:35 pm
I don’t know if you guys do awards, but there’s one waiting for you here – http://manaboutthehouse.wordpress.com/2007/07/19/pop/
Comment from the Grit
Time: July 19, 2007, 8:16 pm
Hi A,
We take what we can get Many thanks.
the Grit
Comment from the Brit
Time: July 19, 2007, 9:09 pm
Hi Alasdair
I second the Grit’s comment. Thanks a lot friend.
the Brit
Comment from matt
Time: August 3, 2007, 5:27 pm
brit and grit:
i am a frequent poster on mz and nsl blogs. i appreciate your clever idea of crossing the pond conversation. i have had about a half dozen english mates and picked up thier love for haggis, marmite, veggiemite and colemans (proper) mustard.
my request stems from many conversations i have had with the brits on the irony of america’s stand on terrorism. we seem to support freedom fighters (such as the ira), but complain vehemently on terrorists. can you generate a conversation on the irony that one’s terrorist is another freedom fighter? this is especially pertinent since the brits have a new pm and we are about to election a new pres in a year and change.
regards and go arsenal
matt
Comment from the Grit
Time: August 3, 2007, 5:38 pm
Hi Matt,
Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to leave a suggestion. A very good suggestion, I would add. Considering the background you list, I’ll give the first shot at it to the Brit.
MZ and here dad are cool, and I recall seeing some of your comments. I’m glad you found your way over here and hope you return often. Let us know if you open a blog so we can check it out.
the Grit
Comment from the Brit
Time: August 3, 2007, 7:27 pm
Hi Matt and Grit
Matt, thanks for your comments. I will put something together on this issue and post it over the weekend.
regards
The Brit
Comment from Jonathan
Time: September 27, 2007, 10:01 pm
Dear Grit,
I have read your comment on reasic.com, and thought you might be interested in my fledgling blog, http://www.okgetreal.com
All the best, Jonathan.
Comment from the Grit
Time: September 27, 2007, 10:37 pm
Hi Jonathan,
Well, I at least like the name, and I’ll take a look at it asap.
the Grit
Comment from Dawappevy
Time: January 31, 2008, 7:18 am
The best music mp3! Enormous archive! Everything is there.
robert plant
the beatles
the rolling stones
songs timbaland produced
alicia keys lyrics
bob dylan
jay-z blue magic
spice girls mp3
billboard top 20 songs
van morrison moondance
Mark Ronson
timeline of Frank Sinatra
Madonna mp3
prince kiss
Boyz II Men
Westlife home
Garth Brooks mp3
Metallica one
The Beach Boys wouldnt it be nice
ABBA mp3
and more…
Comment from matt (from nsl)
Time: February 7, 2008, 12:49 pm
this is a webpage you might enjoy
http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/07/the-charmingburka-breaks-no-laws-of-the-koran-only-taste/
would have emailed it to you, but dont know it. if you want, can you send me a test email so i can send you these type of links for your perusal or eventual posting
oh, and last i heard, elvis was living with the sasquatch in upsate new york. dont know how they will be casting their ballots yet
Comment from the Grit
Time: February 7, 2008, 2:29 pm
Hi Matt,
Cool link to a charming waste of the airwaves
Our email is: brit_grit@walla.com, and, in case you loose it, it’s listed way down at the bottom of the left hand column.
According to my usually unreliable source, most supernatural/mythical creatures vote absentee, except for gremlins who seem to enjoy visiting the polling places in person.
the Grit
Comment from Jayne :)
Time: February 22, 2008, 11:50 am
Just popped in to see what happened in my long absence – see the banner didn’t find itself? lol
Oh well – keep on keeping on Grit, tell Brit I see him lurking around Helium but he seems too posh to come downstairs to visit with the povo. Bad Brit!
Now that I am domiciled in the remaining part of the British Empire, would you be interested in some totally NON political views on from this side of the ocean? Tis a funny old place to be sure!
Comment from the Grit
Time: February 22, 2008, 12:26 pm
Hi Jayne,
You made a long term move? Cool! By the way, I could use some non-political just about anything! While I was reading your comment it occurred to me that my mug was made in China so it’s political, and the coffee beans used to make my morning brew always have some political turmoil around how and where they’re grown. Aaarg!
So there, if I did it right which is not a certainty at this hour, you should have author privileges. We’ve got plenty of unused bandwidth, so post away
the Grit
Comment from Jayne :)
Time: February 22, 2008, 6:30 pm
Hey Grit – that is uber cool (or is it kwel??) as the junior members of the family would say
One small question? How do I actually go about posting away?
thanks!
Comment from the Grit
Time: February 22, 2008, 7:02 pm
Hi Jayne,
Just login with your existing user name and password. Click on write, and get going. Your user name is, in case you forgot, “Jayne Scott”. I can set your password, but can’t access the existing one. If you want me to change the password just email me. If you would rather have a new account, set one up through the “register” link, email me so I know the new user is you, and I’ll change the permission on that account.
Actually, I should thank you! It’s getting a bit one sided around here without the Brit.
the Grit
Comment from Jayne :)
Time: February 22, 2008, 9:02 pm
Thanks for that vital info Grit – now if I can just remember my password? I’ll have go and let you know if I get it right
I must admit I did think stories from the mighty British Empire were a getting a little thin on the ground! And it’s such a bizarre place it seems unkind not to exploit it – lol
Comment from the Grit
Time: February 22, 2008, 9:28 pm
Hi Jayne,
Since I see you’re working on a post, I’ll assume you recalled your password
Of course, if the Brit doesn’t return soon, I may have to change my handle to Tarzan.
the Grit
Comment from Jayne
Time: February 22, 2008, 10:03 pm
Hi Grit
Now that could be very interesting! lol
Be kind to this my first post – I’m finding wordpress a little different to work with? How come you can’t justify it? – looks a bit scruffy 
Jayne
Comment from Jayne :)
Time: February 22, 2008, 11:39 pm
Well that was fun – thanks! One little question? Why is there a block of adds down the left hand side of the text area on the page? Or is it just me seeing it? Makes it hard to read the top part of the page.
Jayne
Comment from the Grit
Time: February 23, 2008, 1:57 pm
Hi Jayne,
WordPress is really pretty simple to use, but it may take you a while to get used to it. Justification is available on the writing area tool bar to the right of the bold, italic, and strike through icons. Unless you mean, why is your post in the middle of the screen, which is because the Brit and I like having lots of stuff on the sidebars and a triple column layout gives us more space.
the Grit
Comment from Jayne :)
Time: February 23, 2008, 3:43 pm
Hi Grit
Thanks – I meant block justifying? i.e. both margins lined up neatly – don’t worry, it’s a girl thing
The adds thing is on the left of the text space, to the right of the sidebar on the left. For me it is partially obscuring the left side of any article – maybe it is just me though?
Jayne
Comment from the Grit
Time: February 23, 2008, 5:21 pm
Hi Jayne,
Well, the blog could probably use a woman’s touch
The obscured text is due to the combination of your monitor width and your text size setting. For Internet Explorer, the text size can be adjusted under “View” / “Text Size.” If choosing a smaller text size doesn’t fix the problem, let me know and I’ll check into the situation further.
the Grit
Comment from Jayne
Time: March 7, 2008, 12:48 pm
Hi Grit
Think you must be right – I’m using the hubby’s laptop and it seems to work fine, no obscuring adverts! He’s on IE while I’m on Linux – wonder if that’s the problem?
Sorry I haven’t been around for a few days, we have moved into our dolls house and are STILL awaiting internet connection! Hopefully I’ll be back online next week – sigh!
Lots to tell you
Jayne
Comment from the Grit
Time: March 7, 2008, 1:55 pm
Hi Jayne,
I do so hate moving. I can also empathize with you on the Internet connection delay. I’m still waiting for my cable modem connection that was promised for last year.
the Grit
Comment from R.
Time: October 24, 2008, 1:39 pm
Hey, really enjoy your vicious racist website. Always nice to ingest a little poison to remind me of how small the minds of my fellow countrymen can get. Having run this country into the ground on a scale we are only beginning to get a glimpse of, maybe the Republicans should turn it over to someone else. Yes, huge fortunes of a few have been made at the expense of the American people but maybe the Republican raping and pillaging of the US should take a little breather for a while. But maybe you do make more than 250K? Maybe you do cuddle your sad little racist fantasies like a little teddy bear? Then yes, vote for McCain. Barack for the rest of us who are ready to act like adults.
Comment from the Grit
Time: October 24, 2008, 3:57 pm
Hi R.
Since my reply is going to take a bit of space, I’ll devote a post to it.
the Grit
Comment from R.
Time: October 24, 2008, 7:15 pm
Ha ha, the alleged attack in Pgh was a hoax and you believed it. Because you wanted to believe it. The “victim” had a history of mental illness and did it to herself and just admitted it. Whew. She’s part of the McCain campaign. So instead of telling us anything about Barack supporters, instead tells us about McCain followers. Yikes.
Comment from the Grit
Time: October 25, 2008, 2:52 pm
Hi R.
Silly me, believing the news. I should have used the story about the house of a McCain supporter being shot up.
the Grit
Comment from R.
Time: October 27, 2008, 5:05 am
You call me a child (an absolute child no less) and then sign off, “Kiss my ass you twit.” Seems pretty childish but then such schoolyard invective on the Internet is drearily predictable and seems to have replaced the more civil send off like “Sincerely yours” of days gone by.
As to your economics lecture I offer a few correctives and further reading. First of all, by the rich, let’s be specific: “the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 33.4% of all privately held wealth.” See http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html. Look for the L-curve on YouTube for a nice visual explanation. We’re not talking about movie stars but the owner class whose wealth comes from ownership of those things that produce wealth such as land and corporations. Extend this to the top 10% and we see that a very small number of people in the US owns pretty much all the net wealth. For everyone else, their wealth comes from their jobs, and they work for their money as opposed to their money working for them. We’re not talking about a difference in a degrees between the owner class and the workers but a fundamental, structural difference between these two groups. And because money controls politics in the US through campaign finance and other mechanisms, it means that this same minority of billionaires controls most of the major decisions about what this country will be like. They control both major parties and determine who the candidates are (both McCain and Obama are products of this system). This massive inequity stands in the way of any hope of creating a democracy in the future. It also explains why huge fortunes exist for a few while most communities are struggling over things like school budgets, basic infrastructure and health care. The fact that a few have unimaginable wealth means that the many have what’s left and some haven’t enough. Everyone who works, however, contributes. No, not everyone should have exactly the same. Not everyone needs or wants the same. But how difficult would it be to see to it that everyone has enough? It would take a fraction of what the top 10% control to provide decent schools, health care and food for all Americans. It is obscene in a country as wealthy as the US that anyone is hungry. If you are interested in “evil” you might start here. I don’t think we need to steal from the rich but instead create a few democratic institutions. Get the money out of politics so others can run fairly besides the same old hand-picked of the super wealthy.
Having said that, there are differences between the Republicans and Democrats (though it is increasingly hard to tell). Obama is a moderate liberal and though he won’t fundamentally alter the massive, structural wealth inequity, he seems to be interested in treating the symptoms and making the tax code more progressive. McCain, on the other hand, seems to be interested in continuing in Bush’s shoes. According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, the average annual growth rate of corporate profits before Bush was 8.3 percent. After Bush, 12.8 percent. On the other hand, wages and salaries have stagnated at an average rate of only 1.9 percent, after adjusting for inflation, down from of an average of 3.8 percent before Bush. See http://www.cbpp.org/8-31-06inc.htm. So again, if you are in that top 10% of wealth owners, then voting your economic self-interest means McCain. But for everyone else, the pocketbook vote is Obama.
The idea that there is anyone else to blame besides the Bush cabal for the complete catastrophe that is Iraq is not worth taking up. I will admit that we are all responsible because we let them do it but that is another matter.
As for racism, whiteness in America, the historians tell us (references supplied upon request), was created as a control system. It gets that bottom 80% to fight amongst themselves and for whites to identify with their top percentile masters instead of their equals with darker skins. This is only part of the reason some will defend this system of inequality even while it makes their own lives more difficult and the rich richer at their expense.
And I will refrain from lowering myself with the usual potty mouth slander that typically graces these kinds of forums. Maybe you will think more highly of yourself next time, too.
R.
Comment from FinnertMiny
Time: October 27, 2008, 6:54 am
Eh.. I can be ticklish about my intense making Wanna very nice joke?)) What did God say when Joan of Arc showed up at the Pearly Gates? Well done.
Comment from R.
Time: October 30, 2008, 4:16 am
Though I could do without the sarcasm, the false characterization and the ad hominem attacks, I thank you for the opportunity to understand your position better. But for me it boils down to this remark: the system is the best that has ever been tried. As you put it, “it’s fairer than any other system you can name which has been tested by application.” Very practical and safe until you realize it is also absurd. Inhabitants of every society that has ever been save for those in collapse, would and no doubt have made the same claim. Nineteenth century white southerners made it in the context of debate over slavery and the North. Whites both north and south made it in 1950s in the context of the Cold War and the Russians. Somehow we always forget that societies and civilizations evolve. We are seeing that now and how it will turn out in the short term is up for grabs (within limits, of course), thus heightening the sense of importance of 2008. The question is not whether this is the best society that has ever been tried, in itself highly debatable. Not that history is not important, but the question is rather where is it going? This society seems to be based, despite what agents within it think they are doing, on the centralization of wealth and power into the hands of a few. The super rich, the top 10-20% of wealth owners, control most of the wealth. It is tiresome to point out that they are also the investors because is just that means by which they dominate resources and wealth over the rest of us. Taxation is more interesting but the taxes they pay come out of income taxes. Income is not the bases of the wealth of the rich. Money makes money much more efficiently than wages from labor, the reason why there’s the super rich and the rest of us whose livelihood depends on work. The idea that we are free not to play the game is unrealistic. We wouldn’t be able to “watch from the sidelines” because we’d be too busy getting chewed up by the system. Capitalism doesn’t care about you except for what you bring to the market. For most of us the only real thing we have to sell is ourselves and our work which goes pretty cheap comparatively. Real wealth comes from ownership of corporations, the bigger, the more diversified and global the better. This doesn’t include famous actors. Corporate taxes are filed separately from individual. Yet I bet you’ll never guess how much corporations pay? If you like numbers, here’s a few for you:
“But, at a time when most households are paying taxes, the
General Accounting Office (GAO) just reported that most corporations do not and that
95% of corporations pay less than 5% of their income in taxes. In response, the Chamber
of Commerce called these figures misleading since supposedly many corporations did not
earn any income. The GAO’s report indicates that it ain’t so. The corporations that did
not pay taxes between 1996 and 2000 appeared increasingly profitable. Further, since
2000, corporate taxes dropped sharply, while profits rose decisively. And rising profits
came out of workers’ hide since overall wage growth lagged.”
http://www.americanprogress.org/kf/profitstaxes.pdf
or this:
“The study showed about 28 percent of large foreign corporations, those with more than $250 million in assets, doing business in the United States paid no federal income taxes in 2005 despite $372 billion in gross receipts, the senators said. About 25 percent of the largest U.S. companies paid no federal income taxes in 2005 despite $1.1 trillion in gross sales that year, they said.”
http://digg.com/politics/Study_says_most_corporations_pay_no_U_S_income_taxes_6
here:
http://www.cbpp.org/10-16-03tax.htm
and here:
http://www.topix.com/forum/source/chicago-tribune/TCBKFNHFGQDJDIENA/p5
Income taxes like on Rush Limbaugh’s pie charts are like a sleight of hand trick, misdirecting your attention away from the 800 pound gorilla in the room, the staggering inequality in wealth. The real story is in the pie chart of wealth ownership.
As to your “experiment, one I put myself to sleep with on restless nights, consider how hard, should you have a breakthrough idea for a new car which you could make in your garage, it would be to bring it to production. Keep in mind, for a start, that you’d have to crash test the first 20 or so.” I don’t know what your point is if it wasn’t to illustrate the lack of freedom in free trade, the lack of fairness in laissez faire. Or maybe it shows how inefficient and cumbersome the system is? Your thought experiment says, this is a game for the Big Boys and they keep it to themselves. If we are lucky, the rest of us can sell our labor making their cars their way, at least until they move our jobs to Mexico to make more money. We will still get to choose whatever product they design, always a compromise between consumer and producer. This is the limit of my power, as a worker or consumer and an index of my disempowerment. If you are like most people, it is yours too. So I am not sure how this helps you sleep unless your deep confusion tires you out.
So for someone to say, well this is the best we can do is intellectual laziness and a failure of vision. You fall back on the excuse of human nature. We know that it is highly adaptable and operates along a spectrum of what humans are capable of from the Buddha to the Nazis. You forget that there is a future of this society to plan for and so you have to ask the all important question: what kind of a society do we want? If you could choose between poverty or not poverty, which would you choose? You might tell me you can only choose or not choose it for yourself, that you cannot choose it for someone else? The great majority of the poor, I feel safe in saying, is involuntarily so. It is simple: they are poor because they don’t have enough resources to lead a decent, healthy life. The reason for this is also obvious, because we allow astronomical rates of hording wealth and resources, to the point where it endangers the lives of millions of our society’s members. This you wrap in patriotism and call it the price of freedom and so become the faithful guardian at the gates of mansions and board rooms you will never set foot in. And you forget the pie or the soup bowl is only so big at any one time and there is only so much to go around, even though it is quite a lot, so much in fact that there is no good reason why hunger should continue to plague humankind. We create a system that prevents millions from obtaining the resources sufficient to thrive and far less than we are capable of given the wealth of our society. And then we blame those left out for not having enough. There but for the grace of God goes anyone in a capitalist society and the way things are going it may be many more of us headed that way soon. If it’s you or me out of job and on the breadlines will it be because we just aren’t working hard enough? Will it be because we are stupid, as you put it? Isn’t this a bit smug? Was there a sudden increase in stupidity suddenly in 1930? Sorry but this idea just seems so out of touch as to seem childish. It reveals an incapacity to understand economics structurally. Our culture and media have so screwed up our priorities that we would rather rationalize a system of vast inequality than create a new society that follows our natural tendency as a species, in which its members take care of one another. Scientists tell us that empathy is hard wired from our earliest primate ancestors, not because it is a nice humane virtue, but because our species depends on it for its survival. Not all animals would need to develop empathy but warm blooded mammals nurture their young and offspring whose parents are tuned into their needs show a higher survival rate. We also find that humans thrive when they work together, it is probably their primary evolutionary advantage over both prey and enemy species, while hermits, settlers, and the isolated lead a far rougher life. So we choose to work and live together in collective units. Should the purpose of these be to service a class of the super wealthy like some kind of feudalism with TV and fast food? Or should the point of working together be human happiness? Because capitalism does not place an intrinsic value on human life (except as it, and everything, has an extrinsic market value), those who indentify with it easily lose sight of the simplest things we teach our children.
I refer you to a very good children’s book on a simple point, Stone Soup. In it, travelers enter a fearful village. They are hungry and tired and have nothing but, one by one, they convince the town to help them make stone soup, a fresh stew made from the diverse contributions of the villagers from what they had in their larders. It leads to a big feast and celebration lifting the spirits of the town. It is the contributions of everyone in that society that made more than enough for what they needed for unity and happiness. So when we think about the question of what kind of society we want, and since we must choose, my choice would be one that makes stone soup.
By the way, vote Obama if you want to close the loopholes that allow for the loss of corporate tax money, allowing for social programs that go to average Americans rather than social programs for the rich. Okay, so am I advocating taking power and money away from one group to give it to another? Since one is forced to make a choice one way or the other, which would you choose? The group that already has way more than enough, or average hard working Americans whose goals are fairly simple but not being met? No president will solve all of our problems. As Obama would be the first to tell us and often does, we will have to solve our own problems together as a people and as a species. So while Obama is not a savior and far from the ideal candidate, he is, at the very least, a step in the right direction. I mean left.
Sincerely,
R.
Comment from R.
Time: October 31, 2008, 4:24 pm
Thanks for your response and you raise some interesting points. And again, it helps me to understand a point of view that has baffled me for a long time. But a few things about our differences are clarified. Part of the problem I have with your responses, however, is that I can’t always tell who you are arguing against, me or all the liberal demons into whose company you lump me. For the record, I don’t consider myself a liberal and most of the opinions you ascribe to me are not ones I agree with nor are they ones I have espoused. Always difficult in a political debate, but I think you need to listen better and pay better attention to things that your interlocutors actually say, not what you think they say because you’ve pigeon holed them. For example, I expressly said that Obama is not the ideal candidate and stressed “far from it.” Does this sound like I am a worshipful cultist? I think I have a fairly sober assessment and still hold that he is a moderate liberal. And not to get off subject but the idea that an Obama government will confiscate your guns is ridiculous and paranoid. Very little will change because there never is much difference between presidential candidates in the modern American political system, at least in my lifetime. As usual, voting involves trying to figure out who’ll be least dangerous or the lesser of two evils. Everyone seems to realize this (which explains low voter turn out most of time) and most people know why, because money in America controls politics and so big money picks your candidates for you, candidates who will never in any way fundamentally alter the status quo but instead support policies that favor their interests (like tax codes that provide loopholes for corporations and the rest of us holding the bag).
One thing I think we actually agree on, surprisingly, and one of the ways that you show an extreme misunderstanding of my position, is on government. But jeez, with you it’s like a mantra. Count how many times you say it over and over. You blame it for everything apparently. But oddly, I think we both agree with Thoreau, the government that governs best, governs least. He went one better and proposed governing not at all. We both agree that it would be much better if people could just handle their own affairs themselves. They are certainly capable of it and much better than having a third party intervene to mess it all up.
But where we differ is on capitalism. And here I believe I differ with liberals as well while you agree with them. As with most Americans they think they live in a middle class country where all its institutions are neutral and color blind and gender blind, fair and impartial to all, rewarding to any who buckle down and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. You do not seem to see what is otherwise fairly obvious from the beginnings of capitalism to the present. Built into capitalism is the tendency to concentrate wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer hands. Evidence for this is all around us from the time of the robber barons to the concentration of deregulated media ownership today to the ownership of wealth in the reports whose UrLs I sent you. Left to its own devices capitalism would eventually lead to its own collapse, as we are seeing now. It constantly requires Government which you claim to hate so much to step in and prop it up. The current bail out is only the most dramatic example of what government does all the time, it takes my tax money and gives it to corporations in direct payments or subsidies. Some people call it socialism for the rich. But the point is that capitalism could not survive without government constantly stepping in to prop it up. You want to get rid of Evil Big Government? You want a level playing field? Then you are going to have to choose between Big Government and capitalism.
Now in order to legitimate itself to average people and rationalize its existence as a way to funnel my money to help out poor needy corporations, government also has to provide a few minimal intrusions to offset the ravages of capitalism. As a system that puts surplus value above human needs, it chooses cutting costs over doing what human economies should do, simply provide what we need as a species for our survival (plus any luxuries people might choose). So unsafe working conditions and poisonous and unhealthy products are just some of the hazards of an economy based on individual self-interest over human good. People therefore want regulations that a capitalist society requires. They are better off with them. If you don’t like government intrusion, again you are going to have to make a choice between them and capitalism. They come with the territory. Unions too. If you like being able to spend time with your family on weekends, you have unions to thank for that. Against a corporation, the individual is powerless. Only when workers band together have they ever had any leverage and brought about many of the luxuries like “overtime” and health benefits that we take for granted and that corporations take away in the absence of unions. So as with anti-union Walmart, we end up paying for the medical costs of their workers through our taxes and they pocket the difference. More socialism for the rich. See how I continually have to pay for corporations to stay afloat so they can get richer and richer? It is not a system that rewards hard work as you seem to think. It is a system of exploitation in which I have to pay the rich to rip me off and leave me to clean up the mess of pollution and poverty and the promise of more bailouts. Thanks. As to this “anti-family” non-sense the republican party likes to peddle. Any system that does not assume an intrinsic value to human beings is not only anti-family but anti-human. And anyone that defends such a system, well, they’ll have to sort that out for themselves.
Sorry I mentioned Limbaugh. I did not need to to make my point but I thought it was something you could relate to. Boy, that really set you off but I really did not mean to touch a nerve. If you want to know what “you leftists” have against him, you’ll have to ask them. If you want to know what I have against him, go back and read what I said. As for having the media in my pocket, I wish. The function of mainstream media, like Big Government, is to support and prop up the corporate capitalist system you love. That is because like Big Government, Big Media is owned by the same people. They allow for a certain narrow spectrum of debate and viewpoints, including liberals (who share your same basic views), but raising the points I am raising here are strictly forbidden. Your point of view is easy to find and the coin of the realm. By the way, in political science a liberal is someone who supports capitalism with a government that protects individual rights. So if we were to use terms with any accuracy, considering your stated views, you’re a liberal.
I do find it encouraging that you like Stone Soup though. Yes, the people in the story did not need some outside government body stepping in. But they also did not have some members of their village claiming the soup was all theirs. Can you even conceive of such a society I wonder?
R.
Comment from R.
Time: October 31, 2008, 5:20 pm
revision Para. 3: “You want, as I do, to get rid of Evil Big Government? You want, as I constantly call for, a level playing field? Then you are going to have to choose between Big Government and capitalism.” Should read, “Then you are going to have to get rid of capitalism, because the two go hand in hand.” In other words, capitalism cannot sustain itself and will reduce to barbarism in the absence an outside force to support it and mediate for it.
Comment from the Grit
Time: October 31, 2008, 8:37 pm
Hi R.
Sorry dude, but I just spent three hours responding to your last comment. A reply to the last one will have to wait \.
the Grit
Comment from Jayne :)
Time: November 16, 2008, 11:46 pm
My goodness, what a LONG post!
I see you’re still a little short of British idiosyncrasies and stupidity on your Blog Grit? And also the Brit himself it would seem?
Jayne
Comment from the Grit
Time: November 17, 2008, 3:18 pm
Hi Jayne,
What can I say, it’s a subject I’m interested in.
As to the Brit, I haven’t heard from him for almost a year now. I did notice that he’s still writing on Helium, or so it appears. I must have pissed him off somehow?
the Grit
Comment from Jayne :)
Time: November 17, 2008, 8:25 pm
Hey Grit – haven’t seen him on Helium this past month either and not to chat for the past year so maybe I pissed him off too?
Ah well, such is life – you got some space for tales of an English life again? I’m sure I can find some juicy stuff for you if you’re interested.
Jayne
Comment from the Grit
Time: November 17, 2008, 9:09 pm
Hi Jayne,
Last time we talked, he was having family troubles, medical stuff, with his mother. I thought he had it worked out, but I, as I often am, could be wrong. Time will, hopefully, tell.
I always have space for your contributions. This blog, in my opinion, is in desperate need for some across the pond influence. Your user account is still open (as author – and I’ll up that if you need it) and you would do me great honor to jump in anytime the mood hits you. If you need help with the account just email me and I’ll set up another one or change whatever to make it work. I have a tremendous amount of unused bandwidth, and I can’t think of any better way to use it than giving you another soapbox from which to speak.
the Grit
Comment from Jayne :)
Time: November 17, 2008, 11:08 pm
Thank you – you are too kind
Not sure if I can remember my log in and password but I suspect it may be the same one I use for most stuff since I have a terrible memory these days and find it easier to not have too many different ones. If that doesn’t work, I’ll let you know – lol
Lots of stupid politicians and people here so I’m sure I can find something interesting for you!
Jayne
Comment from the Grit
Time: November 17, 2008, 11:31 pm
Hi Jayne,
I’m looking forward to finding out what you find interesting
the Grit
Comment from Jayne
Time: November 18, 2008, 12:26 am
OK – I went and wrote the perfect post. I checked it and pushed ‘publish’ and now it has lost ALL the paragraph breaks! And, yto add insult to injury, won’t allow me to edit the post – a little note comes up to tell me I’m not allowed to edit – arghhh!
So sorry Grit but can you maybe put the paragraphs back where they belong for me – it looks dreadful otherwise!
I will get the hang of Word Press!
Jayne
Comment from Jayne
Time: November 18, 2008, 12:39 am
But on the positive side – the links work
Comment from the Grit
Time: November 18, 2008, 1:33 pm
Hi Jayne,
You are welcome. You picked up some extra HTML formatting commands with either one of the links or the picture, and that was the problem. It was easy to fix once I got two cups of coffee down Oh, and I increased your user privileges so you can edit and delete and such.
the Grit
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